Welcome to W3B’D! As we enter this new era of Web3, so many of us want to join the crypto community with confidence. Host Sheila Lirio Marcelo, Web3 entrepreneur and serial founder, is joined by Amy Wu who leads a $2B venture fund dedicated to crypto/Web3 at FTX, and Luvvie Ajayi Jones, NY Times bestselling author, in front of a live audience to unblock the mystery of the blockchain and explain the A-Z of NFTs.
Host:
Sheila Lirio Marcelo, Co-Founder & CEO of Proof of Learn and Founder of Care.com
Guests:
Amy Wu, FTX Ventures, Gaming M&A at FTX; and Luvvie Ajayi Jones, 2-time New York Times bestselling author, speaker & podcast host
This podcast is being provided for informational purposes only and is not intended as investment advice.
Sheila 00:00
Welcome to the W3B'd podcast, the newest source for the crypto curious that unblocks the mystery of blockchain and teaches you the A to Z of NFT's. I'm your host, Sheila Lirio Marcelo, an entrepreneur, educator, founder of Care.com, and CEO of ProofOfLearn. My first venture disrupted Web1 and grew with Web2. Now I'm out with another mission driven adventure of learning and growing in Web3. Crypto is a big, exciting and, to many of us, bewildering world. Let's explore it together. We created this podcast to simplify and celebrate the ins and outs of the new economy, and decentralized web. On each episode of W3B'd, I'll guide a conversation between someone who's been to crypto land and someone interested in going there. You can think of me as your bridge to the metaverse. I know you'll enjoy the ride. And yes, we'll explain what the metaverse is too. Welcome to the very first episode of W3B'd that's with a three in the middle instead of an E. Today, I'll be your host for a live conversation between Luvvie Ajayi Jones and Amy Wu. We're going to get into what you need to know and where you need to go when it comes to entering the space of crypto and blockchain at any level. Luvvie is a New York Times best selling author, speaker, college professor -
Luvvie 01:36
That's new
Sheila 01:37
... and influencer from before there were influencers. I call that an OG.
Luvvie 01:46
True life.
Sheila 01:49
She's also super intrigued by the new economy Web3 - all of it.
Luvvie 01:53
I am.
Sheila 01:54
Amy is head of ventures and commercial at FTX. Powerhouse lady who runs a global $2 billion fund dedicated to crypto and Web3. She's a brilliant investor in crypto and gaming companies, Luvvie is crypto curious, Amy is crypto confident and we're together today for a real conversation about something quite a few people seem to know a lot about. But really, most of us do not. Luvvie and Amy, thank you so much for being here to talk to us. All right. So I think we need to start at the beginning. When where and how did all this tech driven investing start? So Luvvie I am gonna start. What is it that you're most curious about learning?
Luvvie 02:39
About crypto? So oddly enough, I own crypto, only because my friend told me to do it.
Amy 02:48
That's how we all started.
Luvvie 02:49
Right, like, I have a friend who was just like, hey, you should buy this thing. This like crypto coin. I was like, Okay, I don't know what it means. But he told me to do it. I'm impressionable. I'll do it. So like I like threw, like $1,000 at it. And I was just like, I don't know, she wants me to do it. And I just let it be. And I was just like even now I still own NFT's. And I'm like, I don't know what this is. So I've just been peer pressured into getting it. But I don't I can't explain it to somebody. So until I know, I have to explain to a five year old I'm over here like chat, I just did it because my friend told me to.
Sheila 03:20
And that's how many of us start. And so turning over to Amy, as someone who was a partner at Lightspeed Venture Partners. They're investing in crypto and gaming companies. What is one misconception or observation you want people who are just entering the space to know.
Amy 03:38
I think the biggest misconception is that you're too late to get in now. Or that people who are quote unquote, crypto native actually know as much about crypto, it's funny because he's a crypto confident the reality is, you go through this curve, where, you know, at the beginning, you first hear about Ethereum, you're like, I don't know anything about crypto, and then at some point, you feel like you know, a lot. And then you are right back to where you started. I feel like I don't know much. Even now, right? And so the reality is that we are so early in this space. I mean, there's, by the numbers, there's maybe only 10 million people who have even downloaded and used a wallet like Metamask, you know, probably a lot of people haven't heard of what that is, maybe some people have. And so we are and then maybe call it a million people who have bought an NFT so early in the space. And so that's the first misconception.
Sheila 04:38
Okay, so I'm glad you mentioned too late. The other word that I think you implied or alluded to is there's a sense of humility in the space where you think you know a lot but the reality is everyone's learning together. Anyways, because the next step is making sure we understand it's all about learning on this journey. I can start with a quick explanation of Web3, how many people know web3? Okay, you're here tonight to learn something. There's this phrase decentralized information via blockchain. Few big words in there. Right? So I'm gonna start with blockchain. Chris Dixon of Andreessen. He's considered one of the OGs and has been in crypto for a long time. This is how he describes blockchains: that they're really just computers. They're computers that make a commitment. It's the software that's making the commitment, right. And so traditional computers are ultimately controlled by people, either personal computer, you control your own laptop in front of you, or organizations that control servers, right, and blockchains actually invert this power relationship by putting the code in charge. That seems kind of scary. But yet the actual benefit of being the code in charge is this other big word that we we say decentralization, since it's the software instead of a few companies that actually control the kind of relationships and commitments that are being made. It's transparent, it's open, and it is accessible. It's pretty powerful stuff. Okay, so now we have this word NFT floating around, too. So Amy, how do NFT's play into getting involved in Web3?
Amy 06:14
Yeah, NFT's. So non-fungible tokens are essentially, the interesting thing is, two years ago, in 2020, this concept of decentralization first came up with financial applications that are built on smart contract blockchains. People call that defi summer, decentralized finance protocols were essentially created for the first time on Ethereum. And people thought that was what's going to drive a lot of people into crypto. And it turns out that orders of magnitude more people are learning about crypto for the first time via NFT's because they're essentially a token that is unique, like each one is unique. They are written and held on a blockchain the ownership of it, and who owns aspersion on blockchain, and it's a crypto asset, however, because they're usually images, and sometimes animated, and at times carries sound, it can be imbued with a lot of elements is a thing that somebody can own where it's meaningful, right? It's, you know, the most popular form of NFT's right now, our profile photos, and because people are like, I associate this with myself, and so it's fun and whimsical, and speculative. And so it has been the best on ramp for a mainstream audience into crypto, that I think the crypto mainstream community would not have guessed what happened last year.
Sheila 07:44
I love how she's just removing all the jargon, don't you Luvvie?
Luvvie 07:47
Yes. So I had trouble with understanding NFT's. So I took to Twitter. And I remember just being like, okay, so I'm a marketer, and I've been in communications for 12 years. I'll tell you crypto's biggest problem? It's that lingo. I think I'm smart. But whenever I hear crypto terms, I'm like, Huh? Carry the one. Okay? I almost feel like marketers need to sit in a room for 12 hours, and go, okay, how do we learn how to explain this to somebody without using words that are more than seven syllables? And when that happens, the world can then understand it. So for me, it wasn't until somebody explained it. And again, I still was like, yeah, okay. They explained the NFT to me, like, okay. Think about your house as a NFT. It's one on one, your mortgage is what proves that you own it. So think about the blockchain as the thing that is holding your mortgage. And I was like word, okay. Okay. And it wasn't until then I think there's the need to like really attach it to a real life scenario because it feels so abstract. So for somebody who is I'm very much of a linear thinker, also a visual thinker. So I've like remained crypto curious, because people weren't putting this in phrases that felt like real life. And I kept on seeing these ugly profile pictures, because I was just like, what is that?
Sheila 09:12
You mean a PFP?
Luvvie 09:14
What is it? Well, I kept on seeing these profile pictures, and I saw my friends switching to different blurry profile pictures, and I was like, are these what NFT's are? Because why is it blurry? Is it a blockchain? What is happening. So I think I actually started getting a little bit more understanding. I'm still very much like, if like understanding crypto was like, 0 to 10. I'm at like, point 8, right? That's what I feel like I'm at, but I really do think marketers need to sit in a room and be like, okay, crypto nerds, as wordsmiths, let's figure this out together, so we can all stop being confused. That's what I say.
Sheila 09:58
So you went on this journey of purchasing NFT's through friends encouraging you. Obviously they sat down with you ...you learn like.. how did you figure out the whole wallet thing?
Luvvie 10:10
They were on WhatsApp. Shout out to WhatsApp, okay, that's were all types of shenanigans start - WhatsApp - somebody sending you a chain letter. Well one of my friends was like, so she video chatted me and she goes, okay, so I'm gonna tell you to buy this thing you know, I don't need you wrong. And I'm like, okay, you basically call me whenever you want me to spend money. Cool. So she was like, I want you to set up a wallet. And I think she had me go to Coinbase
Sheila 10:35
Yeah, go. Yeah.
Luvvie 10:37
So then she was like, okay, sign up for this account. And it took like, to authenticate me like four times. All right. And then she's like, buy this coin. The first coin that she had me buy was Bitcoin. This was 2017.
Amy 10:50
I was like dang, she just told me spend more money on it but she was just like just that this wallet, this this thing that I'm buying? I was like, Okay, fine. And she was like use an amount of money that if you were to lose it, you wouldn't be mad at me. And I said, alright, so buy 500,000. And she's like, that's fair. So I think I bought bought 1000 of Bitcoin. And I forgot I did it. I just left it there. And then 2020 happened. And she was taught me one more time to buy one other coin. I can't remember what coin it was. And then one day, she wasn't Ethereum. It was one that she called me last year and was like, hey, remember when I had you I had to buy a coin, like two years ago? And I said yes. She was like, I think it's worth like 24 times what you spent for and I was like, really? She was like you love me, don't you? And I was like I might Yeah. But I could. Again, this is also where crypto is, it's confusing to me. It was in another wallet that she had asked me to do. I don't remember the thing, the login. So here I am being like, I figured that out too. But ultimately, what I've learned from her is one spend the money that you're not afraid to lose that if you were to lose it, you would not be like, Oh, I can't pay my mortgage. So I'm just kind of like, Alright, I will see what is in a pot of my play money and try to spend that. So for NFT's. Yeah, she called me once again and was like, there's this NFT thing, you should buy one and I was like, what coin I gotta buy now. So I think that's when I first bought Ethereum. And I think that was last year. And then I bought my first NFT like, four weeks before the BFF event. So yall were like my gateway into... I think I own five now, I still could not explain to you why. So ....but I'm just like, You know what, I'm going to try it because I am an early adopter of tech. You know, I've been on Twitter since 2008. I've been on Facebook since 2004. So I figured you know what, even if I don't know how to use it right now, let me get in and figure it out later. Early.
Sheila 12:56
Okay, so we're going to demystify this step by step, I'm going to turn over, turn it over to me, because there's a lot, there's a lot of steps in there. Right? So, you know, you define NFT, but let's go step by step, you know, so how does one get into crypto and purchase something? She described wallets, it's, it's all confusing. So
Amy 13:17
I think the confusion stems from this problem and crypto which is, you know, the people that are in it are engineers and purists and they're not UX designers or maker of consumer apps. And so the UX is just horrible, right? It's so confusing. And even now, like almost every other day, I'm like, you know, I might not see this money again, it was gonna take me a week to get, you know, for something to settle on this other chain or whatever. And so I just say that if people are lost and getting into crypto, you are not alone. And this is a problem the crypto industry needs to solve. And quite frankly, if they don't, it's not going to have mainstream adoption. And so this is this is one of the biggest opportunities, I think, as an investor in the space. But in terms of typically how people first get into crypto, the first thing most people do is start with one of the crypto exchanges like FTX, or Coinbase. And the easiest thing is people basically just sign up for an account. And then you can then buy Bitcoin or Ethereum, whatever is listed, and that's a custodial. And when people like say what is the difference between Metamask and trading on the Uni-swap or something like that, or buying tokens on one of the exchanges. The difference is that, how if you think about how crypto started, it was started first. Well, first cryptographers and there was like a mathematical purity, like experiment, right? But then at some point, it was that people were distrusting of governments and it was this concept that you could potentially do a transaction with something with an entity or someone without like permission list as and you don't need a middleman like a government or a bank to help you do this transaction. And then it was adopted by like drug dealers and drug cartels, because it just seems to get into this very convenient fast. And then of course, there's like whole applications built on it. And so as part of that, there are these wallets where essentially, like a Metamask where or a phantom on Solana where you essentially don't need to trust a bank to hold your assets, these assets are held on the blockchain, but you are responsible for remembering, for example, the password of the wallet and account that you created. And there's something like billions of dollars of crypto assets that are lost because people have forgotten the passwords. So it turns out that the majority of people don't care about that permissionless element to buying and trading crypto, which is why in 2017, Coinbase and I mean, Binance, to seize on the opportunity to actually be like, you know, what, actually, I'm going to custody and hold your money and assets. And then so if you lose your password, you just asked me for password replacement.. and that was how the first mainstream resale normal, you know, sort of crypto curious people first started buying Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies back in 2017. And so now still, it's the most popular onboarding mechanism, which is you sign up for an exchange and you start buying one of the tokens listed. And in terms of buying NFT though,
Luvvie 16:29
I have a question before you keep going, I want to ask you the question of so when people want to determine what wallet that they go with, like brand new, have never bought nothing. What are the things that need to be asking themselves about how to choose a wallet because now that there was like was how many are there that exists?
Amy 16:45
Oh my gosh, dozens and dozens.
Luvvie 16:47
So how do you pick?
Amy 16:50
So, basically, if you're going with.. the first thing I do is open up a wallet with an exchange right? Which really what that means is you start an account rather than exchange. Most people the biggest exchanges in the world today are Coinbase, FTX, and Binance, okay, and so obviously, you know, dominant market share of today, like where people start and some people want to go and do more like participate in decentralized finance, right? And we talked about that and.com And the most popular wallet there is MetaMask but for MetaMask, you do need to keep hold of your seed phrase and or like your password and how to enter the wallet because there's nobody you're going to be able to email in order to retrieve that if you've locked yourself out. It's a non custodial wallet.
Sheila 17:40
But Coinbase, FTX and Binance has really simplified the experience. Right? And so here's something that really inspired me about six months ago, I watched a documentary of a grandmother in the rural area under educated in the Philippines. She was sitting on the edge of the bed in this documentary sitting next to her husband, Lola means in our language and Philippines means grandmother. Her name was Lola Virgie, she had downloaded a MetaMask wallet. She had purchased Ethereum she had purchased NFT's, Luvvie you'd be proud of her!
Luvvie 18:16
Wow.
Sheila 18:18
And she was playing a game which we're going to transition to in a second called Axie Infinity okay and was doing this play to earn game and she was making more money than the average wage in the local rural area and she was showing super cute at the edge of the bed kind of showing her medicine that you know she had purchased through playing this game for crypto and the same time also buying groceries. So something literally woke me up six months ago and kind of said to me you know what, we're really ready for better experiences now she obviously had to conquer a lot to get there She was she was really driven by this play to earn gaming, which I want to start to transition to. So as someone in crypto ventures, what are the trends that you're seeing and looking out for? What does the market look like right now? What have you learned, especially in your earlier career, that you carry with you today? And especially as you're observing things in gaming and onboarding? That's the other thing that's bringing a whole slew of people onto crypto.
Amy 18:54
She did. That's a there's a lot to unpack there. In terms of what I'm super excited about. I will say right now, I spent a lot of my time in Web3, which as I define it is consumer applications in crypto. And so because consumer applications actually are capturing and has always sort of brought mainstream audiences onto certain trends and new technologies, it is doing that in crypto. And so whether that is a gaming use case for crypto or social network and how to incentivize and gamify different features of that using NFT's and tokens or you know, as we saw, there's like Bored Ape Yacht Club and these NFT projects that are actually becoming brands, right?
Sheila 20:08
Okay, talk about Bored Ape Yacht Club. I remember listening to a podcast, and I had to unpack what that was, do you want to describe?
Amy 20:16
Yeah...It's a project that was an NFT project that was started by, you know, a couple of anonymous founders. And as they are, they are, you know, it's a collection of 10,000 images of
Sheila 20:33
Bored Apes as if they were part of a yacht club. And they were this clothing, you know, sailor, like,
Amy 20:39
they have different attributes, I would say, I think the minimum cost of one currently is like $200,000. You can buy them on FTX, or NFT marketplace or OpenSea the decentralized NFT marketplace I would say that they're now like the number one NFT project from like a mainstream, kind of like a lot of people heard about them.
Sheila 21:02
They beat up CryptoPunks now...
Amy 21:04
Yeah,we'll now I mean, actually, CryptoPunks, in total have had more sales, but they've been around for more years. But Bored Ape it's like, you know, celebrities now hold them and, and it's really capturing the imagination, they are innovating in IP. If you think about it, what's the value of this collection, and the holding company that holds them Yuga Labs, it is in the IP, just like, what is the value of Chanel, it's in the brands, and the value of that. And so they're taking it one step further, which is if you buy if you own a Bored Ape you own the IP of that image, if you choose to make merchandise and T shirts from it, you actually can keep 100% of the world proceeds the company doesn't keep any of that. So it's pretty, so they're innovating. And I think, you know, IP monetization, and then, you know, in terms of what the company wants to do, they want to take Bored Ape Yacht Club brands and build an empire with it, whether it's, you know, movies, TV, media, games, etc. They have a lot of ideas. And that's, I think, where the future of a lot of these NFT projects are going and is one of the more interesting areas.
Sheila 22:17
It's definitely a head scratcher, right? You're sitting there going right Luvvie, like you're sitting there going like hmm like a Bored Ape Yacht Club for $200,000 to $300,000 I tried to buy one at OpenSea too and it just didn't speak to me, you know, just wasn't wasn't speaking to me. But now, but why do we purchase nice shoes ...Chanel bags?
Luvvie 22:40
But bags is nice. The leather on the Chanel bag is buttery soft, okay, and it goes fierce with a good outfit. I think I was struck again, I used to see this... because loitering on Twitter all day, I used to see people changing their profile pictures. And I was like these pictures are not cute.
Amy 23:00
It's in the eye of the beholder.
Sheila 23:03
But you see the brand, the brand of that Chanel purse that my husband says it's just a logo on it that says Chanel.
Amy 23:11
I understand. I was like that is different. Okay, we see the Chanel coat. Yes. But again, like art, it is subjective, right. What I find that I love about the projects that are led by women that I've seen is our images look like we tried a little bit more. Like we actually tried to make it look nice, like so the NFT's that I own. I was like, oh, that's cute. I get that one. I wouldn't have thought this Bored Ape thing would have been a thing. But again, with everything. It's a branding thing, right? So it honestly became, here's the thing that I struggle with about crypto that I'm just like, how do you know what NFT to buy? Because how do you know what connects with the masses because I would have sworn up and down this whole Bored Ape thing was not going to do nothing. But it feels like with every brand, right? Like when you see like fashion trends, it feels like a trend that you just like, it's a risk. It's a crapshoot. I'm not sure which one to jump into where to put my money in. And, again, people have different tastes. So how do you make the decision to be like, that's the one I'm about? I have a couple of thoughts on that. Yeah. So I actually think it's not that dissimilar from fashion because we use the one thing which was connection with mainstream consumers and I'm not sure that's the criteria. It's actually wished tastemakers made it aspirational and popular. And suddenly, the mainstream audience were like, oh, these celebrities, these influencers are wearing it. That's cool. Even though that doesn't make me look slim, or whatever. The fact is, is that it seems cool, right? So where's that cool factor? Well, there's a different set of tastemakers in crypto, which are, you know, crypto influencers and people in the community that people trust and also to, you know, celebrities as well. But you'll find that the crypto NFT projects that have done well, were first sort of seated and shared and made popular by the pretty hardcore native Web3 community first and like this comes back to this idea of community lead community owned. And actually, there isn't that much of a correlation between celebrity influencer lead in a traditional sense, um, crypto projects are seen by a lot of the crypto community as money grabs, and like inauthentic and so therefore, they don't they don't buy it. They don't you know, they don't share it. And you see these projects not take off and like can't tell why like, why the Bored Apes? Well the Bored Apes Yacht Club was owned by the Web3 community before any celebrity owned any Ape. And I think that's something that people maybe not realize as much like on the on the NFT side. And so similarly to fashion right, it is like, it seems cool. The right people are, you know, advocating owning it, showing it off on their Twitter profiles.
Luvvie 25:20
Okay.
Sheila 26:07
And the PFP, right.
Amy 26:09
And then suddenly, everyone else wants to own one..
Luvvie 26:11
Gotcha. Now that makes sense to me, right? Because, you know, fashion is subjective. But if the cool people are like, I'm wearing like Rihanna, we all like that's cute, even though your like I dont know how it's gonna look on me but I am gonna buy it. So I feel you on that. That actually makes sense.
Sheila 26:25
Okay, let's talk about the cool factor of the Web3 community, and the cool factor that made Bored Ape Yacht Club, popular... started with majority men. So let's talk about that in segway to your both your thoughts. I'll start with Amy now and move to Luvvie around women in crypto, and especially women of color in crypto.
Amy 26:51
I mean, I've I've always worked in male dominated industries, you know, tech, sports. Now, crypto gaming. Yeah. And there are really few women in crypto. And that needs to change. I'll give you an anecdote which is women in gaming, and actually what female gamers so gaming used to be dominated by men in these like shooter games, etc. And interestingly, a few years ago, with mobile, the rise of mobile gaming, or women, gamers were actually leading that trend, right? Female gamers actually wanted to play CandyCrush, and a lot of these did new forms of games that were actually seen by what was then mainstream as not as legit and not as high fidelity games, etc. And today, mobile gaming is 60% of the entire gaming industry, and the fastest growing. And so honestly, my perspective in crypto very male dominated. If you look at who's the predominant demographic in the major crypto exchanges, certainly in decentralized financial protocols, it's mostly men. And that's an opportunity. That's a huge opportunity. It's an opportunity because women are tastemakers. When we were at Lightspeed, we invested, you know, one of our partners early investors is Snapchat. And when we're looking at social networks, we looked for early communities of women, because they make the content less toxic, and more welcoming. And they and this is actually a thing that investors look for. And so women are tastemakers a lot of times. And so in crypto, this is, quite frankly, an opportunity to bring more women of color, men of color, actually diverse audiences into crypto in general. And that really needs to happen. Because it's not there today.
Sheila 28:41
It's interesting that the definition of mass market should include 50% of the population.
Luvvie 28:47
I mean, I'm, I don't call myself a gamer, but just realize I am because I play the Sims. When I feel like I don't want to be productive with my life, I play the SIMs because it just takes up my whole life for like 12 hours a day. But I also play computer games. And I think about just how much our games are not given credence, because they're considered, you know, oh, that's just that doesn't count. My husband, I have the Oculus. My husband plays it most of the time. But it's interesting because we are not included in the conversations right? And for me, when the whole NFT boom was happening last year, that's one of the things that made it hard for me to kind of jump in feet first. It felt very dude/bro and back to the NFT looks, to your point, women detoxify spaces, we make things prettier. Yes. Like actual factual, we make things more appealing to the eyes. So when I see NFT's on my profiles like these are not good. And then when women projects started happening, I was like, thank you. That is a beautiful image that I actually want to look at not because somebody thinks it's cute and not because of some tastemaker but I'm loving watching women enter the space and actually making the pieces and looking like the pieces have effort. And that's what I have a problem with about male dominated spaces often, which is also why I've avoided a lot of male dominated spaces, is the inherent mediocrity that's brought into it. Like, we get dressed, we get dressed, and it takes us an hour, because we want to present our best feet forward, right? I often keynote conferences, and I'll show up, blazer it up. And I'd be like, yes, she was bangin hat is on point. And the guy who's been on after me, his clothes are wrinkled. And I'm like, nothing goes together. What is this? So just that piece.... It happens! I see so much. I'm like, did you even iron? My guy? Like what, how?
Sheila 30:48
There are some pluses to that! They pack really quick.
Luvvie 30:52
Yeah, oh, my gosh, on trips, I make a list. So I'm really excited about the idea that women can now start easing our way into it. Yeah, cuz any industry that lacks a woman's touch and voice is wildly lacking in quality. So I firmly support which is why the NFT's that I own the four five baby are all women led projects, because I was like, who's a woman I can give my money to?
Sheila 31:18
Okay, so we're adding beauty. We're adding organization, we're adding all this, but but imagine that unbelievable amount of revenue, yeah, to this $2 trillion industry that women actually control the wallets, that we would add?
Amy 31:37
Absolutely!
Luvvie 31:37
And as a Black women I'm especially sensitive to the fact that we're so behind on it. Even when women start getting into an industry, Black women are left behind. Yeah, so that's why I'm kind of making them a point now to be like, Okay, I do want to start understanding more. So I can start bringing my squad in more and being like calling them and being like, have you bought this wallet, because I really do think an industry that is not truly inclusive in that way, is lacking extra good thought, like, it's, it's lacking the different perspectives we can all bring into it. It's like lacking layers. So that's why I'm like, Alright, I need to get on top of this and really learn it. So I can also pass on this information,
Sheila 32:18
and not be intimidated by it
Amy 32:20
Yeah, I think when people like, say, well look like us are more vocal, we're on Twitter, we're on TV, just talking about it. So people see, when people are listening to a crypto expert, they don't look like a white male, like this is when it starts, this is where it starts. And then there's also the men in our lives that for example, like our, my, you know, my CEO, Sam, who, you know, was felt confident to trust a $2 billion fund to a woman and other people like that, and, you know, doing events and just being more inclusive, like it just kind of trickles and bows down from there. And so I definitely feel a lot of responsibility to help represents and also help break down some of these barriers, and pass, you know, kind of pay forward what was given to me. And I think all of that is, is amazing. So we can break down the barriers of what was originally basically like an American situation for men.
Luvvie 33:14
I saw that online and crypto is Mary Kay for men, and I was cracking up on like, facts, though. But you know, I think that's a form of economic justice. You know, us being involved in crypto is at this point is one of those things that I mean, International Women's Day just happened and everybody was posting like women rock and I'm just like, but what are we doing to make sure that women have access to the capital to the resources and are taken seriously as actual techies in the spaces that we're supposed to be in?
Sheila 33:42
And on that note, unbelievable conversation. Hopefully, tonight, we've demystified it curious to confident, and there's a sense of just not being intimidated by all of this. Whatever the language, whatever the shortcut words that you hear, right, I mean, my kids OMG I'm learning like unpacking GM is good morning. WAGMI is another word, go look it up on Google. It's a great one, HODL, like, all these things that we've got to go unpack. Don't be intimidated by it. Think about it as a journey of learning something new, a new language, a new country to visit, whatever it may be. But it's enriching our lives. And it's really powerful technology, great philosophy of decentralization and opening our minds, welcoming the people that will create social impact. And with that, thank you. Thank you, Amy. Thank you. Luvvie. Thank you.