Join us as we talk to Raj Gokal, Co-Founder and COO of Solana, and Alexa von Tobel Founder & Managing Partner at Inspired Capital – two builders, founders, and rockstars in their respective fields – about the inevitability of unstable markets, the bear market, what that might mean for the more conscious crypto consumer and more.
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INTRO
Welcome to the W3B'd podcast, the newest source for the crypto curious that unblocks the mystery of blockchain and teaches you the A to Z of NFT's. I'm your host, Sheila Lirio Marcelo, an entrepreneur, educator, founder of Care.com, and CEO of ProofOfLearn. My first venture disrupted Web1 and grew with Web2. Now I'm out with another mission-driven adventure of learning and growing in Web3. Crypto is a big, exciting, and, to many of us, a bewildering world. Let's explore it together. We created this podcast to simplify and celebrate the ins and outs of the new economy, and decentralized web. On each episode of W3B'd, I'll guide a conversation between someone who's been to crypto land and someone interested in going there. You can think of me as your bridge to the metaverse. I know you'll enjoy the ride. And yes, we'll explain what the metaverse is too.
Sheila Lirio Marcelo 00:00
Welcome to this episode of W3B'd where we bring you insights and perspectives of the crypto curious and the crypto confident. I'm your host, Sheila Lirio Marcelo, and I'm delighted to be joined by two special guests, who I've had the pleasure of working with in different capacities. One is a web3 crypto-confident entrepreneur and COO and the other offers a perspective of remaining curious. They're both builders, founders, and rock stars in their respective fields. My friend, Alexa Von Tobel, is truly remarkable. Not only is she one of the founding members of BFF, an open-access community with a mission to help women and non-binary people get educated, connected, and empowered in web3, along with me, but she's also a serial entrepreneur and venture capitalist, New York Times best-selling author and one of the foremost FinTech innovators. She's joining us today on the crypto-curious side as she is a constant learner and educator who helps to break down the complexities of bitcoin and cryptocurrency into easy-to-understand terms, which we know our crypto-curious listeners love. I'm also very excited to have Raj Gokal, co-founder of Solana and COO of Solana Labs in this discussion with us on the crypto confidence side. Solana is notably the fastest blockchain in the world in the fastest-growing ecosystem in crypto. Raj was part of a wave of projects in early 2017 that aimed to solve scalability in the blockchain. He is a creator, curator of amazing talent, and an innovator in the web3 ecosystem. Again, so great to have you both join me for this conversation. I want to start out by asking a simple question. How did you both get to where you are in your positions today? Alexa, why don't I start with you?
Alexa von Tobel 02:53
First of all, Raj, so happy to be here. Sheila, love you. Thrilled to be here. I mean, I think the easiest and simplest answer is that I've really always been an entrepreneur. You know, since the, as early as I really knew myself, I was building things, breaking things. And very, very curious about building businesses and pushing boundaries to fix problems. So I think I landed here, after selling LearnVest in 2015. I decided to build Inspired the venture fund I'm the managing partner of here in New York City, because I wanted to back founders and help them build businesses since it's my favorite thing to do. So that's a quick answer.
Sheila Lirio Marcelo 03:31
And Raj?
Raj Gokal 03:32
Yeah, so my career started in finance, primarily in venture capital, I was at General Catalyst Partners in Boston, and jumped into the entrepreneur seat with my first company Sano, which was in health tech. So this was around the time when Bluetooth Low Energy was a new wireless protocol and it allowed for, you know, wireless devices that could travel around with you that that could talk with your cell phone, and we..you know, jumped ahead and, and, and built what today looks like something like levels. So at the time, it was glucose sensors with microneedle arrays, and, you know, stuck in the, in the health tech space for about seven years, built behavioral health programs at Omada Health, which Balaji was was on the board of and that was where I started to see, you know, some of the coolest, weirdest, most intense engineers that that I knew from the digital health ecosystem in San Francisco were getting really excited about Ethereum and Bitcoin and, and so started trekking along but you know, it felt like the the vision and the dreams that were promised by crypto were probably pretty far off relative to where the tech was. And so after Omada met Anatoly again, we had met earlier on a camping trip and he was at Qualcomm and Dropbox leading compression. And when he decided to leave Dropbox because he thought he had the solution for black chain scalability in 2017. You know, that's that's just something I always look for when best-in-class engineers decide that it's time for them to take the swing of a lifetime and leave something really hard behind. So after a few conversations decided to just spend at least a year helping Anatoly bring his vision to life. And you know, that was five years ago.
Sheila Lirio Marcelo 05:20
Super cool. What's so interesting is I sit here and I hear Alexa started sort of her entrepreneurial venture..and I remember being a judge at that business plan competition. That's how we met. Omg ages ago, and then you're now on the investment side. Raj started on the investment side and is now on the entrepreneurial side, which gives a really great perspective for you both, as we know we are in markets that are inevitably unstable. So let's start with Alexa. I mentioned business school, you did drop out at one point in the heart of the recession and built one of the world's first FinTech companies. What trade-offs do you think founders builders and the web3 community face during our current climate?
Alexa von Tobel 06:00
Sure. So this is one of my favorite questions to get Sheila. So my quick sort of background was I was dropped out of Harvard undergrad, because I wanted to build a company and I had been working on an idea that ultimately became LearnVest and Mark Zuckerberg was a classmate, and I sort of saw what the world can do when the internet truly kind of changes before your eyes. In fact, HBS, I dropped out in the fall of 2008. And at that point, Sheila I'd written a business plan, I had been working on it nights and weekends for about a year and a half. And I had this very clear image that when the world's age you have to zag and business plan I've been working on, which was to help empower a normal everyday American particularly call it your millennials around their wallet, at a time when the world was falling apart and people are getting scared. And I just had this very clear aha moment, as friends were getting laid off, which is this is exactly when a LearnVest should exist, which we became TurboTax for financial planning, essentially. So I think what you have to have in those moments is courage. And I realized I had the plan, I knew what I wanted to do. And I just had to have the clarity of decision to jump out. And the reason to answer your question now that I love to build during very hard times, is, number one, the world gets very clear. It is about survival. Every decision is about you having $1 At this time, I was actually spending my own money. So I put all of my savings, which by the way, is not a great financial plan for anybody out there into building the company. So I was literally spending my own money to advance the business with no backup plan. And you just get clarity, perfect clarity what must happen today. And I developed a muscle and I think for all the founders right now that are building, if you can stomach it if you have the resilience if you have the fortitude, and frankly, if you're so obsessed with your business, that you would build it no matter what, against all odds against everybody. This is a perfect time to build. Because it's it's so clear, you are in survival mode. And I think it develops this muscle that then is the gift when the world comes back. Because you still haven't you remember it and it's almost like a scar that you're wearing. That provides you with just this this fabulous focus. And maniacal focus is a hard thing, Sheila lots of people think they are focused, there's a different focus that exists when you are about to die, versus when everything is abundant. And then finally, you know, it's the time where if you get strong, then you actually start to have this advantage play to your favor where talent is abundant, because lots companies die, and you actually get to go pick and cherry pick the best. So in short, I think this is when real builders show up. It's when the people who are building for all the right reasons not for fame, not for success, but because they're truly passionate about solving a problem. And if you have the fortitude to survive, it's going to be a gift that that works for the next decade as you build because if you can thrive when there are no resources, just think what you can do with resources.
Sheila Lirio Marcelo 09:02
That's really powerful is a great segue to Raj because it's if we're talking about clarity, maniacal focus, and talent. Solana has been very focused on performance from the onset. And although we're in a bear market, Solana NFT marketplace has seen a spike. And you recently mentioned that Solana NFT dollar volume exceeded Ethereum for a day as the theme of our show today's building in a bear market. What do you think this spike in volume is attributed to? It's been a lot of success for this platform.
Raj Gokal 09:33
Yeah, I mean, I think it's not really an aberration of a spike. It's really just a continuation of an up into the right, you know, deepening of penetration of Solana and NFTs into existing crypto users and then expanding the edges to new crypto users. And I think we see that in NFTs because NFTs are the most consumable intuitive would have onboarding experience for someone to understand at kind of a visceral level, what it means to have custody of a digital asset that nobody can take away from them forever, and form with a community around the world that has some agency and the only thing tying them together, you know, at times is just art. So it's a really a beautiful and, and kind of groundbreaking, but also super simple and an intuitive and almost, you know, playful (it looks like a toy, a lot of the time) type of use case for crypto. And the great thing is, you know, this is what you see as the the markets implode, I think when we were several months ago, watching the Terra collapse, there's this big question is, you know, are all the users gonna go away? Is everyone gonna get completely scared away? And we, you know, we looked at Twitter, we looked at the Discords, we looked at all the big blue chip Solana NFT communities. And it was as if nothing happened, they just didn't really notice. And I think that's because these are people that are using the technology, not for speculative purposes, or, you know, or just when the times are good, they kind of see themselves as forming communities as part of a new cultural movement, and, and a way for technology to be used to form cultural movements. So it's very, very resilient. And I think, you know, that's why Solana has been succeeding is just this stuff really benefits from a low fee, low cost, high throughput environment. And, you know, I think that that also creates a really strong bedrock for other use cases. So as we get from this depth of the bear market into the next cycle, we'll know that you know, NFT users were there all the way through, you know, serving as a testing bed for iterating on wallets and infrastructure and custodial infrastructure and exchanges, and, and all kinds of primitives that get built on top. So NFTs I mean, we didn't really plan for it. We didn't expect that this was going to be something Solana is great at. But after building a vibrant, DeFi ecosystem within a year, yeah, the volumes caught up with Ethereum. And there's been over $3 billion in primary and secondary sales of NFTs. So and it still just feels like the very beginning. So it's really beautiful to see.
Sheila Lirio Marcelo 12:11
Congrats on that beginning.
Alexa von Tobel 12:12
That's a pretty big win Raj, way to go.
Sheila Lirio Marcelo 12:16
Oh, it's so you know, what's so interesting is that as we think about the beauty of NFTs, its simplicity, as you mentioned Raj to onboard. And it's got that art that is accessible like you said, it's sort of like playful and all of that. Alexa, you spent a lot of time educating people on what we call the curious audience in web3, crypto, and blockchain. And as we think about this space in this area, in the zigzag world of baron bull markets, how do you think about onboarding more people to increase their confidence to come into web3, blockchain, and crypto?
Alexa von Tobel 12:56
Sure. So back in 2017, I started writing my second book called Financially Forward/ The Future of Your Wallet. And it really, Sheila was something I just felt like I wanted to do for the community, which is a basics on the future of crypto and what it was going to look like, and how the wallet could evolve. And, you know, to kind of dovetail to some of the things that Raj is saying, which is, I believe what's happening before our eyes right now. And it's happening in this seemingly slow motion. But in so many ways, big, big chips are falling, is we're redefining how the wallet operates and how we think about assets in general, what they look like, what they, what they, how we interact with them. Some assets, provide us access, other assets have other unique features of community. And it's all gonna sit in this very, very powerful wallet. And I think one of the things Sheila you.. I'm also a certified financial planner, as you know, which is a geeky thing Raj that I did when I was building LearnVest, and became a doctor of money. And so one of the things I care about is one, I want to educate as many people as possible, because in so many ways, this will be a place where people are going to have exceptional success, truly exceptional. And at the same time, you want people to be smart enough to be able to be thoughtful around scams, the security issues, or all the things that can really happen that could really hurt somebody badly. So you know, a big part of my life's work has been the wallet, the evolving wallet, the future of the wallet, and so trying to help educate people as much as possible so they know how to how to engage and again, that's you and I are co-founders of BFF here. That's one of the reasons why we teamed up with Brett and Jamie was we wanted to bring people into community. And I think literacy is a big part of that. And I would be remiss not to say I mean people struggle a lot with just the web2.0 a wallet in terms of credit scores and how things work and when you add in this layer, you know I will say the the the education layer is a is a vital piece of this but we're redefining how the wallets going to work over the next 20 years. And it's just a fascinating, exciting thing that we all get to be part of.
Sheila Lirio Marcelo 15:07
I love that, you know, you know that we share that same passion and BFF around education. Obviously, that's why now I'm an Ed Tech with ProofOfLearn. And turning it over to Raj it's not just educating the mainstream. What could we do to educate brands, we're learning about the power of NFTs and how simple they are, how beautiful they are, and are just looking at crypto for the first time.
Raj Gokal 15:29
Yeah, you know, I, I think there's been kind of a resurgence of some of these videos from like, the late 90s, early 2000s, of, you know, Bill Gates trying to explain what the internet is, or why personal computers are going to be in every home. And, you know, it wasn't obvious, then that everyone was gonna have a computer and much less that they would all go mobile, and we'd have these, you know, app ecosystems. And at the time, I think what people were trying to kind of explain was some small intuitive use case. But the, the most obvious way to onboard someone was to just put them in front of a computer, get them on the internet. And, you know, I think we all remember that first time that somebody, you know, instant messaged their cousin in South Africa or India, and you know, it used to be a 10 cents per minute, like prepaid calling card that you had to fill up and dial in, you know, with 16 digits. And now all of a sudden, you have this instant connection. And I think crypto has those kinds of intuitive iPhone moments or instant message moments, experiences. And I think the most powerful brands that I've seen are ones that have somebody that's really genuinely curious about what this new weird thing can do, and how they can connect with other people through it. And they're just fully immersed. And they're leading the brand's strategy, or at least being a strong internal advocate for how the brand's, you know, true kind of its soul, like its voice can be communicated through that through that channel. And it often looks kind of weird, it looks like things that are not scalable. I think some of the best examples that I've seen are like, Steph Curry did an NFT drop on Solana. And, you know, it wasn't about, you know, creating scarcity and having a rookie card that was worth a ton of money and having people flip and trade them. It was about connecting more with Steph with the things that Steph likes to do, which is community service, and you know, dribbling and shooting drills, and competing. And so they brought, you know, 30 lucky winners from 3000 collectors, that happened to get the shots that he made on his birthday over the years, to all come to San Francisco and be part of that experience and 3000 people were sharing in the experience of 30. By watching, you know, these people that they had been connecting with over discord, create these videos and have all these wonderful, you know, once-in-a-lifetime moments with Steph in person. And even though they weren't there, they were connecting in a way that you can only connect when you've kind of gone through the trials and tribulations of a big hot NFT mint and getting lucky and trading your way into the one that you want to keep forever and talking with others about which ones are valuable, that community experience and then Steph activating them to just do service. And then getting a glimpse of what his life is like, I think is the kind of authenticity that a brand can bring. But only when, you know there are people in Steph’s team that just were living and breathing Solana and NFTs. And they they really knew this stuff backward and forwards and they whittled it down to something that was really authentic. And that's pretty tough to do.
Sheila Lirio Marcelo 18:34
So, so interesting. Being proximate to the experience of that soul that you're talking about. I took a very good friend of mine, who used to be at Morgan Stanley and took our company public and sold us to IAC when I ran Care.com. And I'm influencing him now to kind of go into web3. And we were just having this conversation. He's like, you know, so interesting as he's digging into the rabbit hole, he said in 2011, cloud computing, everyone questioned whether cloud computing was even going to scale, would we store and trust and do everything but yet, we had to expose companies slowly into it and started to realize, wow, this technology is super powerful. And so how do we bring to bear these incredible experiences that you just talked about, like staff, given what he's doing to build a brand to make people feel like you can touch and feel it in the virtual world? So it's very powerful. And so, Alexa, we've been talking about onboarding, the simplicity of NFTs you're getting on whether you're a consumer or your brand. Now, as you think about it inspired, like what are you seeing in terms of areas for entrepreneurs to build more in web3, like what excites you?
Alexa von Tobel 19:47
I think many things excite me. You know, think, listen, there's there's a ton of projects out there that probably don't make sense or are too early. There are a few areas that I am sort of passionate about and I'll start just like, in my mind, sort of the holy grail of what this could unlock, which is, in so many ways, we sort of take safety and security of a bank almost for granted here in the United States, it's so obvious we have access, and you know, it's this gift. But for billions of people on the planet, that's not an easy thing for them to access. And I think long, long, long term, the number of wallets that can be unlocked, with this new technology instantly from your phone safely and securely can see your own assets. Without you having a ton of money. That is probably on the macro level, Sheila the thing I just get the most excited about of just bringing that stability to to, you know, billions of people over the next 20 years. On the sort of shorter term level, I think what excites me is I think we're going to see just this explosion in you know, I'm going to call it the solopreneur creator economy, where so many middlemen are going to be cut out in a way where people are going to be able to own their information, own their following their their followership, activate them in these really powerful ways. And I think it's going to collapse a lot of the fat that existed in a way that is going to empower people to have very unique ways to earn income and their own income streams for their family. And on the flip side, it's going to give that back to kind of Raj's point on that authenticity, that connection, you're gonna have a closer relationship with brands and the people that you care about, via these new infrastructures. And so I would say those are two areas. I don't know, Raj what you would add? Those are sort of the biggest, most macro, and something in the near term that I'm excited about….
Sheila Lirio Marcelo 21:40
And Raj?
Raj Gokal 21:41
Yeah. So you know, there was some some talk about wallets and how they evolve over time. And I think it's actually interesting to see that most apps that are adopting crypto are becoming wallets. And, you know, I think eventually, in some way or another, almost every app that you rely on, you know, whether that's a payments app, or a neobank, or, you know, even Instagram is, is supporting Solana NFTs… all of these will have digital assets, you know, Ticketmaster, with NFTs as tickets or ticket stubs. All of these apps will support digital assets and withdrawals and transfers, and sometimes even trading. And probably the the word wallet, you know, goes away over time. And so as I think about the logical conclusion, I think there are a few ways to differentiate probably one of them is what what content exists in these apps as digital assets. And I think, you know, there's probably going to be a bit of an explosion, we're already seeing this the early signs of for user-generated content as NFTs. And, you know, I think the early signs on let's say, even Ethereum, with Justin Roiland, art gobbler project on on Solana, there's Neo fairies, that's made by the former executive producer of, of God of War, and, and biomes. That's former, you know, Instagram engineering and design leadership in New York. You know, these are all very simple, intuitive kind of games, for getting users to produce content that ends up very quickly having real value they can exchange on a global art marketplace, or collectible marketplace. And I think, you know, just going back to something that was said earlier about people kind of getting that intuitive sense of what it means to own a digital asset of value. I think the first time that someone creates something with their mind that ends up earning them money, and they have a counterparty somewhere in the world that's willing to pay for it. I think that's a really powerful first experience with web3 and crypto. And the fact that we're only just starting to see the first UGC NFTs out there, I think is super exciting.
Sheila Lirio Marcelo 23:49
Super exciting. So Alexa, where does this go with crypto in everyday life? How do you think builders...I think builders, you know, it's funny, I was on a panel, and somebody had said, Oh, come on, is are people really going to use this? And I said, How do you feel about losing your phone?
Alexa von Tobel 24:06
Yeah, no, I think that. I mean, I think like anything, Sheila, we're in this.. somebody said this to me and I thought it was a great example. So I cannot. These are not my own thoughts. But you know, what inning are we in and they use the sports analogy, which is if we are at a football game, we are not even in a quarter. We're like, outside in the parking lot. Still setting up our table. The cups aren't even on the table for the tailgate. Like that's where we are in how early this is. And so, you know, where's this all going? I mean, I think what we're going to see is, to Raj's point, we're going to see some really powerful moments that are going to be the unlock, right that the moment the aha's is where people say, wow, I really can see how this works. We're gonna see lots of fraud. We're gonna see lots of things that go wrong and that… kind of regulators are going to have to step in. We're gonna see some parts of this cool off, we're gonna see a lot of things die. And like anything else, you're the real builders in markets like this, you're going to build powerful tools that begin to kind of show us that things are gonna work. And we're gonna see many, many other entrepreneurs lay on top of it. And in five years, we're gonna look back to this moment and to your points can be like, everyone lining up to get the new iPhone, and then now none of us could live without it. So that's sort of how I mentally process this. That said, you know, there's, there's just so much learning to do. And I think I very much feel still crypto curious, to your point, because there's just so much still to learn and consume, even as someone who's been active in the space for four to five years.
Sheila Lirio Marcelo 25:39
I love the phrase that you called real builders. And so for Raj, in the spirit of building, obviously a focus on developers here. Talk to us about what you're building over at Solana/Solana Labs, I attend the big announcement of Saga Solana Mobile Stack, like, it's just, yeah, I'm just excited about you guys, and just really excited about the future of what you're creating in terms of interoperability, not through just the blockchain, but through hardware and a bunch of other things. So....
Raj Gokal 26:12
Yeah, I mean, I'll start by saying, you know, a lot of attention gets taken up by layer one foundations or labs teams and the new products and features they released. But Solana is a very, very mature ecosystem, especially for being you know, only to two and a half years in and, and, you know, you see this even in the bear market with things like the last hackathon having 18,000 registrations and 750 teams formed, and almost 100 of them got seed funding before, you know, judging was even done. And this is a record. So it's there's this explosion of independent developers that I think are building, you know, almost as fast as you can come up with something, there's somebody out there, you know, whether it's in Silicon Valley, or Miami, or I was just in Bangalore, and New Delhi at hacker houses where there are 1000s of developers, you know, just churning out products, that entropy is playing out very, very quickly. And people are just iterating and launching products as soon as a new business model or, or a new user behavior is discovered. So that's, that's really exciting. I think where Solana Labs is focused is what are the big platform-level things that we can unlock to to enable the next 100,000 or 1 million developers to get off the ground and have that new business model maybe in a way that didn't exist before. So that's where Solana Saga comes from. It's, you know, as we talk to developers and power users of crypto and Solana and specific, the thing we kept running up against was, you can't have NFT trading in native apps without in app purchases that are pretty prohibitive tax on and if you think about earlier, if what I was talking about with user generated content, how if I'm going to sell you a drawing that I make Sheila in a UGC NFT how am I going to be okay with a 30% cut going to Apple for something I created that I'm sending to you in a peer to peer way, right. So the the models for some of these app stores and these ecosystems that have been dominant for a decade plus, I guess, more like two decades now, are really at odds with some of the most fundamental tenets of crypto and not to get too, you know, and passionate about it but one of the opportunities that we see is, you know, even if it's risky, and it's it's notoriously difficult to enter the smartphone market, what does it look like if there is a place where there's a flagship quality android phone built by the former, you know, lead architect of iPad Pro, it looks and feels and is the quality of, you know, a Pixel or Galaxy phone. And there's no restrictions on NFTs no restrictions on tokens, you can download and and install all your favorite Android apps. But you can also have a parallel Solana Dapps store with no restrictions and and no fees. And what happens if, you know, the custodial part of a smartphone is just you know, pushed to its full potential. So basically, you have a hardware wallet, of kind of ledger level of security in the secure enclave to to custody your your seed phrase in a way that app developers and users can access it. So this is, you know, it's what the future of crypto looks like on mobile. We're just not waiting around. I think that's kind of a theme of the Solana ecosystem as well. If something is technically possible, and the people are here that can build it, even if it's risky, we're just going to take a swing and see what happens. That's what we did with Solana it was you know, 10,000 times as performant as anything else at a time when there was no business making something that performant and you know, you fast forward to today and it definitely gets used people fill that, that blank canvas with their creative energy. So I think that's, that's what we're excited about and what we can do for the next 10 years, just keep opening up the creative space for builders because it will get filled.
Sheila Lirio Marcelo 30:05
Alexa anything to add to that, what you just kind of heard of the exciting developments that they're doing on their platform, just so user-focused, developer-focused and just unleashing the power of technology for just access inequality.
Alexa von Tobel 30:19
I think the one thing I would add is, in so many ways, this is an has the opportunity to to really level the playing field. And I think as Raj talked about, you know, 1000s of developers and hacker houses building and I think we're just unleashing a level of human potential that I think is also quite exciting. And I think maybe the only thing I would add is that for everybody listening to us, don't be intimidated by this category. Right. This is something you know, all of us eight years ago, didn't know anything about this category, maybe Raj did. But I'll speak for myself. And I would just add that, you know, I think this is the opportunity for any one anywhere with access to the internet to dive in and get involved. And to me, I think it's a community that people are really open to share and help one another learn and build on, you know, other projects. So it's a very collaborative community, and anybody out there listening to this, you're you're welcome to come join this community.
Sheila Lirio Marcelo 31:16
This has been so great, thank you. One of the things that resonates so much to me and you guys are kindred souls is that you're entrepreneurs. So we started off the conversation with Alexa talking about despite the bear market this optimism, of hope, as long as you've got clarity, you've got maniacal focus, and that you've got the talent to really excel and separate yourself. And then, of course, Raj, emphasizing that intuition is pretty critical. Some of these traits you're hearing is like, so important if entrepreneurship models will shift because you got to think like an innovator. And we're not waiting around, we're gonna go jump in and take risks. And Alexa, wrapping it up just saying it's early, everybody. So let's be optimistic despite this bear market. This is something that's here and now. It'll be part of our every day. And we welcome all to build with us in this community of where we're going with web3. Thank you. T Thank you for tuning in to this episode of W3B'd If you've enjoyed today's discussion, please continue to check us out on all of your favorite streaming platforms.
OUTRO
This podcast is being provided for informational purposes only, and is not intended as investment advice.